Size Classes?

"Zohaibman72" (zohaibman72)
03/03/2015 at 17:39 • Filed to: BMW, Honda, Size

I'm extremely confused here.

In my mind, ignoring pricing and focusing purely on size, the BMW 3 Series is a compact car, with similar dimensions to a Honda Civic or Ford Focus. It's essentially a Luxury Version of a Civic or Corolla in terms of size.

The 3 Series competes with the Mercedes C-Class and the Audi A4, right?

But the Audi A3 is essentially the Golf's size, and the Golf's dimensions is more like the Honda Civic or Corolla.

And the Audi A4's dimensions are more like a Passat, which is Larger than a Golf/Jetta, which is what the A3 is.

Wikipedia got me more confused, because European D-segment has the 3 Series, C-Class, Fusion (Mondeo), Mazda 6, and Honda Accord (Acura TLX), A4 in the size class.

I always thought the 5 Series, E-Class and A6 where about the size of the Mazda 6, Fusion, and Passat while the 3 Series, A4 and C-Class are the size of Mazda 3, Focus and Golf.

Where does the A3 and A4 actually fit if they both compete with the 3 Series, or is the 3 series and C-class just smaller than the A4 but the A4 is priced similar?

Or am I just stupid and the A3 is actually the 3 series and C-class competitor!? Then where does the A4 fit because the A6 competes with the 5 Series and E-Class!?

AHHHH

DISCUSSION (45)

BmanUltima's car still hasn't been fixed yet, he'll get on it tomorrow, honest. > Zohaibman72
03/03/2015 at 17:43

It's time for an intervention.

Zohaibman72 > BmanUltima's car still hasn't been fixed yet, he'll get on it tomorrow, honest.
03/03/2015 at 17:44

my mind is all over the place its so confusing does not compute

why can't Audi just not make so many cars

A3, A4, A5, A6, A7, A8

BMW does the same, but the even numbers are always sports/coupes so it works!

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and i8

That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms > Zohaibman72
03/03/2015 at 17:44

I think you've been under rating the size of the 3/C/A4. They're Fusion sized, and the 5/E/A6 are more like a Ford Taurus if you want to continue down that line of thinking.

spanfucker retire bitch > Zohaibman72
03/03/2015 at 17:45

Uhh...

Nope.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > Zohaibman72
03/03/2015 at 17:49

American perspective:

a3 = 1-series = cla = golf/Jetta

a4 = 3/4-series = c-class = Passat = ats

A6 = 5/6-series = e-class = cts

A8 = 7-series = s-class

Zohaibman72 > spanfucker retire bitch
03/03/2015 at 17:49

The outgoing 3 series was shorter than the Mazda 3, and the Current 3 Series is 20mm smaller than the Volkswagen Jetta

Um yes.

And I mean purely on size. Other than size, the Civic and Corolla share barely anything with the 3 Series.

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > Zohaibman72
03/03/2015 at 17:50

There's an A3 sized mercedes Sedan. It's called the CLA.

Zohaibman72 > That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms
03/03/2015 at 17:52

The Current C-Class is 20mm longer than the Current Jetta. The current Jetta is 20mm bigger than the current 3 Series. Mazda 3 and Honda Civic fit in the same size class, obviously, directly competing with the Jetta. Mazda 3 was bigger than the 3 series. Not anymore, the new Mazda 3 is small.

The current A4 is 200mm bigger

I might be overestmating the A4.

Will with a W8 races an E30 > Zohaibman72
03/03/2015 at 17:53

B-cars: Fiesta, Fit, A1, Mercedes A-Class

C-cars: Focus, Golf, 1/2 Series, A3, Civic, Corolla, Mazda 3

CD-cars: Fusion, 3/4 Series, C-class, A4, Passat, Mazda 6, Accord, Camry

D-Cars: Taurus, 5/6 Series, E-class, A6

E-Cars: 7 Series, S-class, A8

Galileo Humpkins (aka MC Clap Yo Handz) > Zohaibman72
03/03/2015 at 17:53

Well, to be fair, some of the BMW "Coupes" in the even number range actually have 4 doors. So there's that.

Yossarian > Zohaibman72
03/03/2015 at 17:54

Right now the 3 series sort of does compete with the A3 and A4 at the same time. The 320i competes with the A3, while the 2 series offers a 2 door option.

Zohaibman72 > Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW.
03/03/2015 at 17:54

Yeah I remember that

Looking at numbers the CLA is nearly the length of the C-class

what

CLA:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

C-Class:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Zohaibman72 > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind
03/03/2015 at 17:55

Why is the 3 Series and C-class shorter than the Jetta? And have less interior space?

Zohaibman72 > Yossarian
03/03/2015 at 17:56

This is what Im thinking. I'm thinking Germans don't really care about size-classes and just make the sizes fit their brand rather than regulations.

The CLA and C-class have 20cm of difference in length

Zohaibman72 > Galileo Humpkins (aka MC Clap Yo Handz)
03/03/2015 at 17:58

Yeah, but the germans like everything complicated.

But the 6 Series is to the 5 Series

as the CLS is to the E-class.

Just a "coupe sedan"

Zohaibman72 > Will with a W8 races an E30
03/03/2015 at 17:59

Yeah Wikipedia has no CD class, this does help. But the A4 is signifcantly bigger than the 3 Series and the A3 is almost as big as the 3 Series.

The Jetta is bigger than the 3 Series.

spanfucker retire bitch > Zohaibman72
03/03/2015 at 18:01

The 3-series competes against the A4, competes against the C-Class, competes against the ATS, competes against the IS - the list goes on.

So, no.

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > Zohaibman72
03/03/2015 at 18:01

Holy crap. I thought the CLA is smaller than that. I saw one the other day and they seem Focus sedan-sized.

How about 1-series then? I thought they compete with A3.

And don't forget the A1! Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan those A1 looks really small.

Galileo Humpkins (aka MC Clap Yo Handz) > Zohaibman72
03/03/2015 at 18:03

The lesson here, children, is that buying German vehicles will leave you cross eyed.

Zohaibman72 > Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW.
03/03/2015 at 18:03

Freaking Germans man.

And European Segments.

here is a good example of the D-segment being weird:

The Avensis is the European Toyota Camry

Sit in a 3 series and then Sit in a Camry. No freaking way that is the same size class. Honda Civic is more roomy than a 3 Series actually.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Zohaibman72
03/03/2015 at 18:05

A3/CLA: compact sedan

3/A4/C/ATS/IS: small sedan

5/A6/E/CTS/GS: midsized sedan

7/A8/S/CT6/LS: full sized sedan

Zohaibman72 > spanfucker retire bitch
03/03/2015 at 18:07

Yet the A4 is based off the Passat, and thus shares very similar dimensions.

The A3 is based off the Jetta/Golf

length wise the Jetta is 20mm bigger than the 3 Series, and 20mm smaller than the C-class.

Either the Jetta is huge for it's class, or the 3 Series is a compact.

I'm going with Compact, because I've been in multiple 3 series, Jettas are roomier.

I'm really confused by it. Another arguement is the Toyota Avensis is European Toyota Camry

the Toyota Camry is miles bigger than the 3 Series and C-class. And the Toyota Camry competes with the Passat directly.

Zohaibman72 > Galileo Humpkins (aka MC Clap Yo Handz)
03/03/2015 at 18:09

Germans want to be unique so hard they invented their own segment

more than once *coughX6andCLScough*

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Zohaibman72
03/03/2015 at 18:10

The Jetta is HUGE for its class. Like its within an inch of the current Fusion in every interior demension, which is a mid-sized sedan.

Will with a W8 races an E30 > Zohaibman72
03/03/2015 at 18:11

There is certainly some slop and overlap between the classes. They are only used as a rough categorization based on the underlying platform to describe competitive set and place within the manufacturer's lineup. Jetta is a bit weird, somewhere between C and CD, and competes with both. CD originally became a class simply because people kept building cars between C and D.

Zohaibman72 > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
03/03/2015 at 18:12

The odd one is still the A4 to me. Maybe it's just very big. It's bigger than everything you classified as Small Sedan by a signifcant amount

but Smaller than everything you listed as Midsized Sedan, by about the same margin

A4 seems to be Medium-Small Sedan. I guess that answers it. It competes with the 3 Series and Stuff because of the options kinda balancing it between the A3 and A6 naturally.

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > Zohaibman72
03/03/2015 at 18:12

Well, the Avensis is 73mm longer than the 3 series.

I guess the 3 series has smaller interior?

Zohaibman72 > Will with a W8 races an E30
03/03/2015 at 18:13

YEah I think I concluded that the A4 is actually just big for it's competition (3 Series and C-Class) but too Small for the E-class and 5 Series.

The A3 is also smaller than the 3 Series and C-class

It seems like Audi just built a gigantic car.

472CID > Zohaibman72
03/03/2015 at 18:15

Check this out

City <150"
Subcompact/B cars ~160" length for the hatches
Compact/C cars ~180" length
Midsize/D cars ~190" length
Fullsize >195"

for luxury cars it a bit different

New entry level class ~180"
3 Series ~185"
5 Series ~195"

7 Series ~200"

A lot of cars break these general parameters (Infiniti Q50, Acura TLX, Merc CLA) so don't put too much stock into any of it.

Zohaibman72 > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
03/03/2015 at 18:15

Yeah I kinda did the math and it seems that way, but the Mazda 3 is bigger than the E90s and Smaller than the F30s.

I'm just gonna assume the A4 and Jetta are both huge for their competition and class, end up being in some grey area but still competing with the intended competition (A4, 3, C, IS, ATS), (Jetta, Corolla, Civic, Focus)

Will with a W8 races an E30 > Zohaibman72
03/03/2015 at 18:16

A4 and Passat share a platform, as do A3 and Golf. And yes, the A4 and Passat are getting really close to D car territory.

A3 and Golf are C cars, and compete with the BMW 1/2 series, MB CLA or Ford Focus, Mazda 3, etc.

Zohaibman72 > 472CID
03/03/2015 at 18:17

Yeah doing some stuff in mm and cm, it just seems like the A4 stretches slightly out of it's Class' size limit, but because the A6 exists and its way to small to compete with the E-class and stuff, It is stuck with 3 Series and C-class

The Jetta i used for comparison is also very big compared to Mazda 3s and Civics.

Zohaibman72 > Will with a W8 races an E30
03/03/2015 at 18:20

The Jetta is actually bigger than the 3 Series. But I think thats just Volkswagen making a gigantic car.

The E90 3 Series was Smaller than Mazda 3 though. I still feel like the 3 Series and C-class are compact, but the A4 is just a really huge Compact.

like size wise I always have seen it like

Fiesta > Focus > Fusion > Taurus

CLA > C > E > S

1/2 > 3/4 > 5/6 > 7/i8

Yaris > Corolla > Camry > Avalon

Zohaibman72 > Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW.
03/03/2015 at 18:23

this is all so confusing lol

I'm just going the way americans classify it and leaving at that

Esentially (American Market):

Yaris > Corolla > Camry > Avalon

1/2 Series > 3/4 Series > 5/6 Series > 7/i8

I think Audi and Volkswagen both just have some grey inbetween area with the Jetta and A4

472CID > Zohaibman72
03/03/2015 at 18:26

That's weird, I've found the 3, C, A4, ATS, IS and new Jag were all within 3" (~9cm) from each other. The odds ones out are the TLX and Q50 but based on their pricing they're clearly set on this class.

That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms > Zohaibman72
03/03/2015 at 18:31

Well shit. The 2015 Fusion is 10 inches longer than a damn 3 series.

That doesn't make much sense to me. I'd never have thought the 3 series as being Focus-sized, but here we are.

Zohaibman72 > 472CID
03/03/2015 at 18:31

I think both Infiniti and Acura are making some inbetween Luxury, so they can market upsized bigger cars at similar prices.

the TLX eats up the TSX and TL and morphs into some crazed mutant of both

and the Q50 does the same with M and G

I don't think Lexus is doing this because they probably have the best chance out of any japanese luxury brand of meeting the standards of BMW and Mercedes.

Lexus has proven itself to be such a driving force in the automotive industry with the original LS (which honestly dominated the XJ, S Class and 7 Series of it's time) and the RX Crossover (selling corssovers to the masses, changed the entire damn industry) that it pretty much got equal pedigree to Benz and BMW to regular people.

Not many people see Lexus as just tarted up Toyotas, but I feel like people still see that with Infiniti and Acura

Zohaibman72 > That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms
03/03/2015 at 18:38

Family in NY own a 5 Series, 3 Series, C-class, Prius, Camry, Lexus GS, and Jetta (big house).

The Camry's dimensions are alot more akin to the 5 series and Lexus GS than the 3 Series. The C-Class interior felt much much more cramped than my mom's Civic. Since then I've always assumed C-class was the Compact. It makes sense when you look at it

Civic = Focus

Fiesta > Focus> Fusion > Taurus

that's Ford's hierarchy of size

CLA > C > E > S

When you put it like that, it made a hell of alot of sense to me. The A4 seems to just be much bigger than the 3 and C class, while the, for example, Mazda 3 is about the size of the 3 Series

Textured Soy Protein > Zohaibman72
03/03/2015 at 18:38

I think looking at the actual numbers will enlighten things. These are all in inches. I picked the most common mainstream brands, plus VW & Mazda since you mentioned them, and the big luxury brands. You'll notice upright hatchbacks like the Golf (but not swoopy ones like the A7), are smaller than all the sedans. I left out subcompacts.

Here they are, grouped by t-shirt size:

Kids XL
VW Golf - 167.5
Ford Focus hatchback - 171.6
Audi A3 Sedan - 175.4
Mazda 3 hatchback - 175.6

S
Ford Focus Sedan - 178.5
Honda Civic Sedan - 179.4
Mazda 3 Sedan - 180.3
Chevy Cruze - 181
BMW 3 Sedan - 182.1
Mercedes CLA - 182.3
BMW 4 GC - 182.6
Toyota Corolla - 182.6
VW Jetta - 183.3
Lexus IS - 183.7
Dodge Dart - 183.9
Mercedes C - 184.5
Audi A4 - 185.1

M
BMW 3 GT - 189.9
Lexus GS - 190.7
Toyota Camry - 190.9
Honda Accord Sedan - 191.4
Chevy Malibu - 191.5
Mazda 6 - 191.5
VW Passat - 191.6
Ford Fusion - 191.7
Mercedes E - 192.1
Chrysler 200 - 192.3
Lexus ES - 192.7
BMW 5 - 193.4
Audi A6 - 193.9

M Husky
Mercedes CLS - 194.4
Toyota Avalon - 195.3
Audi A7 - 195.6
BMW 6 GC - 197.2

L
Dodge Charger - 198.4
Chrysler 300 - 198.6
BMW 7 - 200
Lexus LS - 200
Chevy Impala - 200.4
Audi A8 - 202.2
Ford Taurus - 202.9
Porsche Panamera - 203.3

XL
Lexus LS L - 205
BMW 7 L - 205.5
Mercedes S - 206.5
Audi A8L - 207.3

As for the whole A3 & CLA question...

The A3 is a good bit smaller than everything else in the S group, and the A4 is large for its segment (but not overly so). The A4 is 10 inches longer than the A3.

The CLA and C are only a couple inches apart, but the CLA exists to be cheaper than the C, not so much smaller .

The Golf is just kinda a 'tweener. It's smaller than hatches like the 3 and Focus, but bigger than subcompacts like the Fiesta.

Zohaibman72 > Textured Soy Protein
03/03/2015 at 18:48

Yeah, I used the A4 and Jetta for alot of comparisons, they both just seem very big for their class. As with the Golf it just seems like volkswagen group is kinda mixed around with their sizes.

But I always also right in thinking that the 3 series and C-class are Civic sized, Compact.

and the CLA thing also explains why reviews often said just opt for a Fully Loaded Compact like a Civic or Mazda 3 instead of the CLA.

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > Zohaibman72
03/03/2015 at 19:01

Well, the market is weird then.

Now my question, why we don't have a five-door 1-series sedan?

Zohaibman72 > Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW.
03/03/2015 at 19:03

Five Door sedan? Like 1 Series GT?

We do have a 5 door

Kinja'd!!!

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > Zohaibman72
03/03/2015 at 19:07

I know the hatchback. We need small BMW rwd sedan priced arround the CLA..

Zohaibman72 > Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW.
03/03/2015 at 19:09

They should make the 1 Series a sedan. Or a 2 Series gran coupe.

the 5 door hatch is atleast RWD

Galileo Humpkins (aka MC Clap Yo Handz) > Zohaibman72
03/03/2015 at 19:26

Too bad they couldn't invent that particular one with better looking cars.